Two torturous weeks

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momofalexa

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(01/14/09 12:39 PM)

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"Life is a millstone - YOU decide if it's going to grind you down or polish you up."

I definitely dont think you are crazy, Lynne! I have BTDT. Chris, I know it sounds just like Matt, doesn't it, Alexa with her excuses? Well, like Kristin said, she does not deserve the clothes but what can you do? It's a hard situation...you can try Kristin's suggestion...see what happens. I started just saying that is unacceptable and then leaving but that didn't always work. Or saying, discussion over and leaving but again, you have to have somewhere to go and they have to not follow you. That is really hard to do. My dd also went through a stage where she would sooner DIE than wear something from GASP Old Navy...everything had to come from Abercrombie or Hollister, etc. She is better now.

Heather
Mom of Alexa, (17 years old) Diagnosed BP-NOS (09/05), updated to BP II w/psychotic features (05/08)
Abilify (10 mg), Lamictal (200 mg), Provigil (100 mg - a.m. and 3 p.m.), Claritin, Klonipin (.5 mg) as needed
Topamax at night only (100 mg) Seroquel at night only (200mg)
Attends alternative high school (Ohio)

lilyns

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(01/14/09 12:49 PM)

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kristin3 wrote:

"...She is just lucky you can somehow afford these clothes..."

How wrong you are, Kristin. I definitely, positively, unequivically CANNOT afford them. I have only a government salary and literally live from paycheck to paycheck. Even so, I frequently have to borrow money (thank G-d my friend, Susan, is able and willing to lend it to me) and I still have heaps of outstanding bills. I admit that overspending is one of my big issues (along with overeating) and I have always spent money on others, so much of this is my problem because I am unable to say no and stick to it. From now on, I am going to make a serious effort to work on this and try to buy only what is really needed. You all know how tremendously difficult it is to alter life-long habits, but I'm going to give it my all! Continuing this pattern is not only detrimental to Lilah, but also to me.

On a different note, our family therapy session last night was quite something. It reinforced to me and the therapist how truly "off" Lilah's thinking is and how monumentally difficult it will be to make inroads with her because of that. I'll explain more in a separate post.

Lynne,
Mom of Lilah, age 15 (Abilify-25 mgs. and Lamictal-200 mgs.)

aggierules

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Posts: 152

(01/15/09 03:53 AM)

Lynne - I often self-medicate by spending and eating. It is a coping mechanism, but now that I recognize it, I try to keep it under control. I had a counselor who once told me "We do the best we can with what we know at the time of the crisis." It's so true.

Angela
dd Marissa,13, depression/mood disorder Luvox, Risperdal

terrileew

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(01/15/09 06:59 AM)

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I can't remember who said something about PTSD from our kid's behavior. My daughter's tdoc when she was a teen said she believed I had PTSD from being abused by my daughter! And I went through a therapy called EMDR at some point to work through that. It was helpful.

That doesn't mean I don't still struggle with my daughters 'needs'. At this point she wears me down asking me to take her grandson because she 'can't deal with him'. Which I love to do, but he is her kid and she needs to parent him.

Terri
dd is 22, dgs is 3

anonymousmom

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(01/15/09 07:29 AM)

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The only way I could deter Rob when he had his mind made up about spending some of my money was to tell him that I simply DID NOT HAVE IT.

That's the only thing that worked. He would try to brainstorm different ways I could raise the money but I would just shoot him down and tell him to figure out how he could raise the money, as I have A FULL TIME JOB and do not have time to do anything else. At all.

Gotta be very, very firm. But also, you have to say the money just isn't there, or they will do everything they can to part you from your money.

Grrr.

Let us know what's up with Lilah's "off thinking", etc. when you have a chance.

Connie
Mom to Rob 18yo, ADHD, BP, OCD, ODD Refuses meds
Mom to Brad 26 yo, practically perfect in every way

Lvnmomofbpkid

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Posts: 139

(01/16/09 03:42 AM)

Lynne - I agree with Connie. I quite often tell my DS ... "I don't have it" and quite often now-a-days I don't.

One other thing that has worked for me (but it took a few times following through) is to simply tell my DS, no you can't have that. When he persists I tell him again and I let him know there will be no different answer. As he asks again I tell him no again and let him know that if he asks one more time ... we are going home with nothing. Once the question is asked again I go back to the beginning and start putting things back where i got them. Then I walk out of the store. Doesn't matter if it's the grocery store or Journey's (his favorite). I don't acknowledge his temper tantrum while I'm putting stuff back. I don't say a word ... I just do it. He may scream, throw a fit but I just keep moving as if he's not there and he follows right behind all the way to the car and gets in.

It may be very frustrating to have it happen at the times it happens. Especially when your trying to make a last minute stop for something you need for say a company pot luck or dinner with friends or family. I get that. BTDT. Yet in the long run, if you can get to a point where she knows you WILL walk out with nothing no matter how much you need something for yourself, it does get better. The questions, requests, and demands will still be a part of her "mission" but there may be hope that it won't get as far as it has in the past. There will also be times when you will be feeling generous and know she truly doesn't deserve it, yet like someone else said "they are our kids", you will buy it. It just helps when you really can't afford it and need her to comply, not rob the pocketbook and starve until the next paycheck. BTDT!

I too have had him jump the seat while I was driving and repeated punch me in the head. Thank goodness when he did it we were stopped at a light. I told him we were not moving until he got back in his seat and buckled up. Which he of course ignored at first but did as I said when the cars behind me started honking. Then he "was in the spotlight" people behind us watching and on the side of us watching. He didn't like it and never did it again.

Nicole - Sometimes ... Sleepless in Seattle
Dale age 14 - Diagnosed Bipolar w/schizophrenic tendencies & ADHD 2/2006 (after 8 long years of searching for a diagnosis) Meds: Abilify 15mg at night, Lexapro 10 mg at night
William age 11 - Healthy

momofalexa

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(01/16/09 08:29 AM)

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"Life is a millstone - YOU decide if it's going to grind you down or polish you up."

Lynne, my advice is...well...if you are not feeling emotionally strong enough to tolerate a total public meltdown, I just would not try any of these strategies to teach her that you are not giving in. I think in your particular case at this particular time, it's best to avoid going to any stores with her. I would wait until she was somewhere else before going to the store.

Only because I know Lilah will go for days on end harrassing you and I'm not sure you are up for that right now. BTDT. I say avoid all places where she could potentially want to buy clothes or whatever it is you don't want to or can't afford to buy. In the meantime, maybe you can think about using some of these other techniques when you are feeling stronger, y' know? Just my two cents.

Heather
Mom of Alexa, (17 years old) Diagnosed BP-NOS (09/05), updated to BP II w/psychotic features (05/08)
Abilify (10 mg), Lamictal (200 mg), Provigil (100 mg - a.m. and 3 p.m.), Claritin, Klonipin (.5 mg) as needed
Topamax at night only (100 mg) Seroquel at night only (200mg)
Attends alternative high school (Ohio)

Lvnmomofbpkid

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Posts: 145

(01/16/09 12:01 PM)

Lynne -

I agree with Heather. You have to be up to the fight. Don't try it when you're already struggling. It won't work and will just backfire because she won't believe you will follow through. BTDT! Avoidance is probably your best bet during the hard times like Heather suggested. Atleast for now, until after you had a few strong moments to dig your heals in and let her know you're not going to be bullied into buying what she wants. Practice makes perfect and you'll know when you're able and not. It never ends! A constant evolution, because as we learn they do to. They are the ones teaching an old dog new tricks..... If only they lent that energy to constructive progress!

Hugs to you!

Nicole - Sometimes ... Sleepless in Seattle
Dale age 14 - Diagnosed Bipolar w/schizophrenic tendencies & ADHD 2/2006 (after 8 long years of searching for a diagnosis) Meds: Abilify 15mg at night, Lexapro 10 mg at night
William age 11 - Healthy

Last Edited By: Lvnmomofbpkid 01/16/09 12:06 PM. Edited 1 times.

momofalexa

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(01/16/09 12:21 PM)

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"Life is a millstone - YOU decide if it's going to grind you down or polish you up."

I think I would not worry about "digging your heels in" right now. You need respite. Just take it easy and avoid the whole shopping mess for now.

The sad fact is sometimes our kids don't "get over" doing these behaviors. I would not hang my hat on any hope for that regarding shopping. It might work for some people but we are not all the same. The girls seem to be much worse than the boys, unfortunately.

If or when you feel like dealing with it again then go over it with her tdoc and yours to get yourself ready.

Heather
Mom of Alexa, (17 years old) Diagnosed BP-NOS (09/05), updated to BP II w/psychotic features (05/08)
Abilify (10 mg), Lamictal (200 mg), Provigil (100 mg - a.m. and 3 p.m.), Claritin, Klonipin (.5 mg) as needed
Topamax at night only (100 mg) Seroquel at night only (200mg)
Attends alternative high school (Ohio)

JoAnnSW

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(01/16/09 03:19 PM)

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The girls seem to be much worse than the boys, unfortunately.

I agree with Heather here. The shopping issue was a nightmare for us, and HJ's BP girlfriend as well. The girlfriend went so far as to steal her parents' credit cards and charge nearly a thousand dollars worth of clothes online -- and this was after her parents were over-the-top generous with almost monthly expensive clothing purchases that I know put them in major debt.

As Heather said, the best solution for us too was to avoid going shopping. Even now, HJ has trouble controlling impulse shopping. She has her own income with her Social Security disability (for as long as she may qualify) but still asks us to fund unreasonable purchases that she can't afford, like cosmetic surgeries that she thinks she needs or wants to have. However, she does take no for an answer now, where she definitely didn't when she was a teen.

JoAnn, daughter 21 dysphoric bipolar disorder and insulin dependent diabetes, currently contolled with Lamictal, 400mgs, Lithium 450mgs, Seroquel 500mgs, Klonipin 1mg and two types of Insulin

jalmil

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(01/17/09 10:44 AM)

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I just reread this post from the beginning and am totally exhausted. I don't know how you do it, Lynne. By the way, I listened to the You-Tube and your voice is spectaculiar!!!!! Just beautiful. Brought tears to my eyes.

For so long, I felt that Matt's rebellion and substance abuse was directed at me. I mean that in the sense that he knew I didn't want him to do it and it hurt me but he kept doing it. I don't believe that. They hang with the wrong kids. They make bad decisions. It is a rut they are in and it makes them "feel good" about themselves and the world around them. They know it is 'wrong', but apparently when they are high... all is well and the spinning stops.

That one hit home like a bull dozer, Chris.

"I'm not at this school because of my emotional problems. I'm there because of our family problems and because you can't supervise me."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lilah's take on why she is at HH being your problem, amazes me though did not surprise me as they are all so alike, our children.

All I have to say is one day, moment, second at a time. It's all that ever stops me from the tantilizing drugging yourself joke/ action.

Lynn
shiver
Mom to :
Jordon 18- BP II-
Abilify in morning 15mg., Depakote1250mg at night, 300 mg Gabapentin at night,5mg melatonin at bedtime, Imetrex till runs out then Maxalt 10 -as needed for migraines

Alex 16 - Dyslexic and learning to drive slap

Step Mom to :

Tasha 21 -healthy

Rob(Bubba) - 18 asperger syndrome - stopped taking meds.

Last Edited By: jalmil 01/17/09 10:49 AM. Edited 1 times.

justlovehim

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(01/17/09 04:51 PM)

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"For I know the plans I have for you ... plans for a hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

I think avoiding the whole shopping thing is key. I use the "I don't have any money" thing too and it has been the only way I can deal with him. I do not go to the grocery when he is home. Don't worry about digging heels in right now.... just take care of yourself.

It's amazing that she is there because YOU can't supervise her, but BTW.....aren't our kids problems ALL OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!???????? lol Yep, it's all us. So take a load off.... you aren't alone.

Chris

DS-Matt,17 (we made it!)

Depression, dx May 2008, ADHD, dx age 9
Court ordered to take Prozac 40mg, Strattera 40mg, Trazodone 50mg
"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!" Philippians 4:4

tinymomthree

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(01/17/09 08:09 PM)

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Yep your right Chris, it is all our fault... and from what I read in another post by another bipolarittaville family member... profound hearing loss! lol

Tina
dd age 17 bp no meds due to wooled eye drs and dd's apparent anosognosia
ds 15 and dd 14 Ld's

momofalexa

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Posts: 7513

(01/19/09 12:50 PM)

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Master of
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"Life is a millstone - YOU decide if it's going to grind you down or polish you up."

Lynne, hope you are doing o.k. this weekend. I bet you are off today for the holiday but just posting a little shout out for your weekend update when you return to the office!

Heather
Mom of Alexa, (17 years old) Diagnosed BP-NOS (09/05), updated to BP II w/psychotic features (05/08)
Abilify (10 mg), Lamictal (200 mg), Provigil (100 mg - a.m. and 3 p.m.), Claritin, Klonipin (.5 mg) as needed
Topamax at night only (100 mg) Seroquel at night only (200mg)
Attends alternative high school (Ohio)

justlovehim

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Posts: 2329

(01/19/09 05:20 PM)

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"For I know the plans I have for you ... plans for a hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

Ummm, I guess she is off today. Waiting for tomorrow.... hope you had a peaceful weekend.

Chris

DS-Matt,17 (we made it!)

Depression, dx May 2008, ADHD, dx age 9
Court ordered to take Prozac 40mg, Strattera 40mg, Trazodone 50mg
"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!" Philippians 4:4

moxleymama

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Posts: 374

(01/19/09 06:45 PM)

Susan

Mom to :
Nathan (12); BiPolar I mixed without psychosis, ADHD, PDD-NOS (Concerta 36 mg am, Clonidine .05 mg am, noon & 0.2 mg bedtime, & Abilify 5 mg at 6 pm)

Hannah (7); healthy and happy (unless you count the HSM addiction)

kristin3

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(01/19/09 06:57 PM)

Pharmacy
Maven

Oh, Lynne. I didn't realize you couldn't afford the clothes. I agree totally. Don't take her shopping. Since you have been giving in, she will go on and on and on and you won't be able to outlast her. She will keep upping the ante until you can't take it anymore.

When you are feeling stronger, then maybe. A line I used to use all the time but don't have to anymore is "This is not a negotiation/discussion. My decision is final." Then I ignore.

Please let us know about family therapy. I am dying to know. You guys are better than soap operas.

We also think her thinking is off with that comment about her being at HH because you can't handle her but it would be interesting to know what tdoc thinks.

Kristin

Alex 12-GAD, mood disorder, 37.5mg Effexor, 3mg Invega, 100mg Topamax BID

Matthew 9-ADHD, dysthymia, 300mg Wellbutrin XL

justlovehim

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(01/20/09 10:22 AM)

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"For I know the plans I have for you ... plans for a hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

BUMP! Miss Lynne.... hoping you are having a good day!

Chris

DS-Matt,17 (we made it!)

Depression, dx May 2008, ADHD, dx age 9
Court ordered to take Prozac 40mg, Strattera 40mg, Trazodone 50mg
"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!" Philippians 4:4

kristin3

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Posts: 2190

(01/20/09 02:32 PM)

Pharmacy
Maven

Bump

Kristin

Alex 12-GAD, mood disorder, 37.5mg Effexor, 3mg Invega, 100mg Topamax BID

Matthew 9-ADHD, dysthymia, 300mg Wellbutrin XL

lilyns

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Posts: 1856

(01/20/09 03:47 PM)

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Hey everyone! It feels like an eternity since I was last on, on Friday and I sure missed you guys, too. All in all, this weekend wasn't too bad, but it hasn't ended yet. She's at the hospital as I write, finishing up her infusion. Hopefully, Scemi will get her to the train without a problem. On Friday night, she did come home on time, albeit after a foul-mouthed tirade when her negotiations to try get me to extend her curfew failed. The rest of the weekend was pretty uneventful (can you believe it????) except for the usual cursing and ranting that accompanied her outright refusals to do anything. She slept at Marissa's on Saturday night and at Scemi's last night, and basically hung out with Marissa and another nice girl.

The family therapy session, however, was another story. She started by announcing that she wanted the session to go smoothly, without "fights," and intended to remain in the room for the entire session. That, of course, did not happen. To tell you the truth, I can't even remember specifically what triggered her, but things escalated to the point that she was yelling and hurling obscenities at me and finally did leave. We were discussing her behavior during the last two week home visit, and how and why it was unacceptable. At some point, I mentioned that one of the things that upset me was that she did nothing around the house. That triggered the fireworks. She began ranting that I thought she was useless and not even human, and worked herself up into a rage. She referred to me as "that bitch" and accused me of seeing everything as only black or white, wanting everything my way, and refusing to compromise and work with her!!!!!!!!!!!! I really could not believe what I was hearing...She was describing herself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She ultimately ran out of the room. After she left, I spontaneously began defending myself. Shari (the therapist) immediately stopped me and said "Lynne, do you really think that I don't know what's going on? You have to try to trust me. Just because I often stay quiet and don't respond to Lilah, does not mean that I am not fully aware of the reality of the situation...," etc. She was very reassuring and explained that because of Lilah's inablilty to accept even the slightest criticism and her misinterpretation of information, they have to be extremely careful about how they approach her so that she doesn't totally close down. Anyway, she returned to the room after about 15 minutes and things ended on a less hostile note.

Update: Lilah just called me from the train on her way back to school and proclaimed: "I've decided that I want to go to college. I really want to go to FIT (Fashion Institute of Technology) because I want to be a fashion designer." This is the first I've heard about such aspirations, but i's certainly better than her previous aspiration of becoming a cashier!

Lynne,
Mom of Lilah, age 15 (Abilify-25 mgs. and Lamictal-200 mgs.)

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